TThe Diary of a CEO
← All episodes
18 December 2023

The No.1 Menopause Doctor: They’re Lying To You About Menopause! Brand New Science! (Men Need To Listen Too!): Mary Claire Haver

3Frameworks
14Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 3

Myth Buster07:30

Why Haver Says Menopause Extends Beyond Hot Flashes

Haver argues that menopause has been framed too narrowly around hot flashes, night sweats, and periods. She attributes a much broader range of musculoskeletal, genitourinary, cognitive, mental-health, skin, hair, and other changes to declining ovarian hormones and widespread estrogen receptors. The episode does not independently verify every listed association or show that menopause explains any particular person's symptom.

  • Haver says estrogen receptors occur across organ systems
  • She lists brain fog, joint pain, genital and urinary changes, and sleep disruption
  • She also mentions vertigo, tinnitus, and frozen shoulder as emerging discussion areas
  • She says validation matters because many patients have previously felt dismissed
  • Other conditions can resemble or coexist with menopause

there are estrogen receptors in every organ system of our body

Mary Claire Haver · 07:30

they've been dismissed for so long and told it's all in their head

Mary Claire Haver · 08:30
#menopause symptoms#estrogen#brain fog#joint pain
Myth Buster46:00

How Haver Reinterprets the Women's Health Initiative HRT Scare

Haver says the Women's Health Initiative's estrogen-plus-progestin arm found an increase from four to five breast-cancer cases per thousand women per year, which became a 25 percent relative-risk headline. She argues that public reporting blurred the combined treatment with estrogen alone and says the estrogen-only arm did not show the same increase. These are Haver's figures and interpretation; the episode does not identify formulations, participant details, confidence intervals, or current guideline language sufficiently for individual decisions.

  • The trial recruited an older population because cardiovascular outcomes were central
  • Women with a uterus received estrogen plus a progestin in the described arm
  • Haver contrasts one additional case per thousand with a 25 percent relative increase
  • She says the estrogen-only arm had a different breast-cancer result
  • The discussion illustrates why absolute and relative risk should both be reported

the absolute risk went from four out of a thousand women per year to five out of a thousand

Mary Claire Haver · 48:00

That is a 25% relative risk increase.

Mary Claire Haver · 48:00
#women's health initiative#breast cancer#hrt#risk communication
Myth Buster1:03:00

Why Haver Rejects a Direct Male Equivalent to Menopause

Haver says men's testosterone generally follows a gradual age-related pattern rather than the ovarian transition experienced in menopause. She acknowledges wide testosterone variation between men and reports that some men feel better with supplementation, while stressing that male hormone care is not her specialty. The episode does not provide enough evidence to evaluate testosterone treatment benefits or risks.

  • Haver describes a gradual testosterone decline rather than an abrupt reproductive endpoint
  • She says normal testosterone levels vary widely between men
  • She rejects the term manopause as a biological equivalent
  • Her comments on male supplementation are outside her stated speciality
  • The segment should not be used to infer treatment need from age alone

The short answer is not really.

Mary Claire Haver · 1:03:00

there is no manopause

Mary Claire Haver · 1:04:00
#testosterone#male ageing#menopause#hormones

Hot Take· 1

Hot Take59:00

Why Haver Sees Long-Distance Menopause Care as a System Failure

Haver says her clinic has a very long waiting list and that patients regularly fly in because they cannot find suitable menopause care locally. She calls that trust an honour but the underlying access problem ridiculous. She points listeners toward a provider list on her own website and a certified-provider directory from The Menopause Society, while the episode does not assess either directory's coverage or quality controls in depth.

  • Patients reportedly travel long distances to Haver's clinic
  • She treats demand as evidence of a local care-access gap
  • Her website compiles providers recommended by followers
  • The Menopause Society also maintains a certified-provider directory
  • A directory listing is not itself proof that a clinician fits every patient's needs

women are flying in regularly to come and see me

Mary Claire Haver · 59:00

it's ridiculous that they can't find menopause care in their backyard

Mary Claire Haver · 59:30
#healthcare access#menopause clinic#provider directory#women's health

Explainer· 7

Explainer09:00

Perimenopause, Menopause, and Postmenopause Are Not the Same Stage

Haver defines menopause as the point reached after 12 months without a period in someone over 45, while postmenopause is the time thereafter. She describes perimenopause as a potentially long and irregular transition in which hormone patterns and periods can change unpredictably. She notes that hysterectomy, an IUD, or other reasons for absent bleeding can make assessment less straightforward.

  • Haver gives 51 as the average menopause age in the US and much of Europe
  • She says perimenopause can begin seven to ten years earlier
  • She calls the changing cycles of perimenopause the zone of chaos
  • Menopause itself is a retrospective milestone rather than a prolonged stage
  • Blood work may help when menstrual history cannot be used

I call it the zone of chaos.

Mary Claire Haver · 12:00

menopause itself is really that it's just really one day in your life

Mary Claire Haver · 14:30
#perimenopause#menopause#hormones#menstrual cycle
Explainer21:00

The Long-Term Health Risks Haver Associates with Menopause

Haver says research treats menopause as an independent contributor, alongside ageing, to increased cardiovascular disease, diabetes, insulin resistance, bone loss, and other health burdens. She also claims early hormone therapy may reduce some risks and that benefits diminish when started later. These are her summaries of unspecified studies; the transcript does not provide enough detail to assess effect sizes, causality, or individual treatment decisions.

  • Haver distinguishes ageing from menopause as overlapping influences
  • She reports increased cardiovascular and diabetes risk after menopause
  • She describes a window near perimenopause and the first ten postmenopausal years
  • She characterises estrogen as better at prevention than cure
  • The episode does not identify the underlying studies or absolute risks

when you add in menopause as an independent risk factor, her risk for cardiovascular disease increases

Mary Claire Haver · 21:00

estrogen is better at prevention than cure

Mary Claire Haver · 24:00
#cardiovascular risk#diabetes#estrogen#hrt
Explainer31:00

How Haver Connects Menopause with Mental-Health Changes

Haver says depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, and ADHD can newly appear or worsen during the menopause transition. She describes estrogen as an adjunctive consideration rather than primary treatment for depression and says existing psychiatric medication may need clinical review if symptoms change. Her claims about prevention, incidence, and suicidality are reported from the interview and are not independently established by the transcript.

  • Haver describes both new onset and worsening of existing conditions
  • She explicitly says no one is advocating estrogen as primary depression therapy
  • She says hormone therapy may be an adjunct in some clinical contexts
  • She reports an observed suicide-rate increase in some US perimenopausal women
  • Any medication changes require appropriate clinical care

we see either a new onset or worsening of disease

Mary Claire Haver · 31:00

no one right now is advocating for primary therapy of depression to be estrogen replacement

Mary Claire Haver · 31:30
#mental health#depression#anxiety#adhd
Explainer49:30

The Genitourinary Symptoms Haver Says Are Often Missed

Haver describes genitourinary syndrome of menopause as changes affecting the bladder, vagina, and surrounding tissue after estrogen declines. She links it with dryness, painful sex, reduced elasticity, and recurrent urinary tract infections, then strongly advocates local vaginal estrogen. Her broad safety statement, including use in breast-cancer patients, is a claim in the episode and requires individual specialist guidance rather than being treated as universal advice.

  • Haver says the affected tissues contain many estrogen receptors
  • She lists dryness, painful intercourse, and recurrent urinary infections
  • She distinguishes local vaginal treatment from systemic hormone therapy
  • She presents vaginal estrogen as underused
  • The transcript does not discuss product labels, cancer subtypes, contraindications, or shared decision-making detail

we lose elasticity, we see recurrent urinary tract infections

Mary Claire Haver · 50:00

It's not absorbed systemically.

Mary Claire Haver · 51:00
#genitourinary syndrome#vaginal estrogen#uti#sexual health
Explainer51:00

Local, Systemic, Oral, and Transdermal HRT Explained

Haver distinguishes local vaginal estrogen from systemic therapy intended to reach multiple body systems. She lists pills, gels, creams, patches, rings, and pellets, noting that common choices differ between the UK and US. She says oral estrogen passes through the liver and can raise clotting factors, while non-oral routes bypass that first-pass pathway; this is her clinical explanation, not a complete prescribing guide.

  • Local treatment targets nearby genitourinary tissue
  • Systemic treatment is intended to affect the body more broadly
  • UK prescribing commonly uses gel or cream in Haver's account
  • US non-oral prescribing commonly uses a patch in her account
  • Route choice depends on individual risks, formulation, access, and clinician judgement

we have oral and non-oral medication

Mary Claire Haver · 51:00

if they avoid oral estrogen and go with a non-oral form, then we bypass the liver

Mary Claire Haver · 52:30
#hrt#estrogen#transdermal patch#medication routes
Explainer54:30

What Haver Checks Before Attributing Symptoms to Menopause

Haver says she starts by hearing the patient's story, reviewing symptoms, and sometimes using hormone tests when the menopause stage is unclear. She also checks for thyroid problems, autoimmune disease, nutritional deficiencies, and basic blood or electrolyte abnormalities that could resemble or compound menopause. This is a description of her practice, not a standard test panel for every patient.

  • The patient's symptom story comes before testing
  • Hormone testing may be useful when periods cannot clarify the stage
  • Fatigue, night sweats, and weight change can have non-menopausal explanations
  • Haver mentions thyroid, autoimmune, vitamin D, blood-count, and electrolyte checks
  • Testing should be selected for the individual's history and presentation

I start by letting you tell your story.

Mary Claire Haver · 54:30

I want to make sure I'm not missing something else that looks a lot like perimenopause.

Mary Claire Haver · 55:00
#diagnosis#blood tests#thyroid#differential diagnosis
Explainer55:30

Why Loss of Desire Is Not the Only Sexual-Health Question

Haver separates several possible contributors to female sexual difficulties, including relationship problems, arousal, orgasm, and desire. She says treatment depends on the relevant cause and discusses testosterone and prescription medicines as possible options for some desire concerns. The conversation is incomplete as a diagnostic model and does not establish eligibility, efficacy, or safety for any individual.

  • Relationship distress may not be corrected by medication
  • Arousal difficulty is distinct from lack of desire
  • Orgasmic difficulty is another separate concern
  • Haver says menopause can reduce desire even in a secure relationship
  • Medication choices require a clinician and may differ by country and regulatory approval

there's kind of five buckets why a woman would be suffering or not happy

Mary Claire Haver · 55:30

that desire to initiate, that desire, yes, this seems like a good idea. That goes away with menopause a lot.

Mary Claire Haver · 56:30
#sexual health#desire#arousal#menopause

Story· 2

Story16:00

The Training Culture Haver Says Taught Doctors to Dismiss Women

Haver recalls receiving only about six hours of menopause teaching during a four-year residency and describes a derogatory code used by senior residents for midlife patients with multiple complaints. She now interprets many of those patients as potentially perimenopausal and says her own limited training made her a poor menopause provider for years. This is her account of one training culture, not evidence that every clinician or programme behaves the same way.

  • Menopause complaints were grouped into general gynaecology rather than a dedicated clinic
  • Haver says senior residents informally called some patients whiny women
  • She links dismissal partly to clinicians feeling unable to help
  • She acknowledges relying on inherited training for roughly 15 years
  • Her story illustrates how vague multi-system symptoms can be psychologised

I was a horrible menopause provider for probably 15 years.

Mary Claire Haver · 16:00

a WW was a whiny woman

Mary Claire Haver · 17:30
#medical training#women's health#clinical bias#patient dismissal
Story1:16:00

How Losing Three Brothers Shaped Haver's Health Mission

Haver recounts losing three brothers after serious illnesses and says caring for one brother at the end of his life coincided with her own unrecognised menopause. She initially attributed sleep, mental-health, and brain-fog changes entirely to grief. Her family history now motivates her personal focus on nutrition, exercise, sleep, stress reduction, and clinical choices so she can maximise her chance of seeing her daughters grow older.

  • One brother died from childhood leukaemia after a later relapse
  • Another lived with HIV, hepatitis, and alcoholism before his death
  • A third died after stage-four oesophageal cancer
  • Haver says grief led her to dismiss her own menopause symptoms
  • Her longevity motivation is personal rather than a promised medical outcome

in my rush to deliver his care I forgot my own

Mary Claire Haver · 1:17:30

I want to see my grandkids one day.

Mary Claire Haver · 1:18:30
#grief#family history#motivation#caregiving

Q&A· 1

Q&A53:00

The HRT Side Effects Haver Watches During Treatment

Haver says estrogen therapy can be associated with headaches or worsening migraines and that menopausal hormone therapy can cause vaginal bleeding. She also describes adhesive reactions with patches and says formulation and dose may require trial and error. The percentages she gives are interview claims, and persistent bleeding or other concerning symptoms require clinical assessment rather than reassurance from the episode.

  • Haver treats headaches and worsening migraines as reasons for caution
  • She reports vaginal bleeding in some patients on therapy
  • She says persistent bleeding may prompt ultrasound assessment
  • Patch adhesive can cause a skin reaction in some users
  • Alternative formulations and doses may be considered with a prescriber

40% of patients on menopausal hormone therapy will have vaginal bleeding

Mary Claire Haver · 53:30

we have to do some trial and error

Mary Claire Haver · 54:00
#hrt side effects#migraine#vaginal bleeding#patch allergy