TThe Diary of a CEO
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14 September 2023

Ashley Walters (Top Boy): "Me & Kano Didn't Have The Greatest Time!". The Unheard TRUTH About Top Boy, Career Rejection & Personal Grief!

3Frameworks
15Insights

Frameworks in this episode

Insights & moments

The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.

Myth Buster· 1

Myth Buster45:30

A Lifetime of Acting Did Not Mean Financial Stability

Despite acting from childhood, Walters says he became financially stable only in roughly the decade before this interview. He describes an industry dominated by rejection and periods when he did not know how he would feed his children, contrasting visible successes with the much larger volume of refusals.

  • Walters warns his students that he cannot give them a reliable blueprint for when success arrives
  • Preparation is teachable even when timing is not
  • He describes acting income as unstable for much of his career
  • He estimates that rejection makes up most of the experience
  • He would support children entering entertainment while warning them about the difficulty

only in the last 10 years I've been financially stable

Ashley Walters · 46:30

80 of it is people just telling you no

Ashley Walters · 47:30
#acting#rejection#money#career

Explainer· 2

Explainer1:05:00

The Marriage Conflict Between Fixing Problems and Feeling Heard

Walters describes communication in his family as a precursor to action, while his wife values talking through feelings as connection in itself. He says his impulse to solve every problem can feel cold to her, and that counselling has helped them mediate difficult conversations and become more honest.

  • His wife's tactile, openly affectionate family initially felt unfamiliar to him
  • Walters tends to ask how a problem can be solved immediately
  • He finds listening without proposing action difficult
  • He recognises that his wife's different style draws out a useful side of him
  • The couple use counselling and structured discussion to work on the gap

I cannot just listen

Ashley Walters · 1:11:30

communication was for the precursor to take some action

Steven Bartlett · 1:13:00
#marriage#communication#listening#counselling
Explainer1:23:00

Walters's Theory of Why Top Boy Survived Cancellation

Walters says he does not know why Channel 4 stopped Top Boy after two series and presents his explanation as speculation. He believes its timely arrival, cult audience, layered characters, wider social themes, and cinematic execution kept demand alive and helped the story travel beyond London when it later returned.

  • He speculates that a leadership change may have affected renewal
  • The gap off air allowed audience demand to build
  • The show arrived during a pivotal period for London culture and social media
  • Walters credits human, three-dimensional characters with global crossover
  • He also credits filmmaker Yann Demange with guiding many inexperienced actors

I don't know

Ashley Walters · 1:23:30

there were humans on the page

Ashley Walters · 1:26:00
#top-boy#television#audience#storytelling

Story· 8

Story02:00

How an Absent Father Shaped Walters's Search for Belonging

Walters links much of his childhood anger and self-doubt to his father's repeated absence and imprisonment, while stressing that other people can experience similar circumstances differently. He says he later sought male role models among local dealers and found belonging in So Solid Crew before music itself became the focus.

  • His mother remained supportive and did not bad-mouth his father to him
  • Walters repeatedly chose to see his father despite painful experiences
  • He says rejection contributed to a belief that he was not good enough
  • Local men and older members of So Solid Crew offered a sense of belonging
  • He once confused masculinity with aggression and emotional hardness

it made me angry with the world

Ashley Walters · 03:00

joining Soul solid was was never about music for me in the beginning it was about belonging

Ashley Walters · 07:30
#childhood#fatherhood#belonging#masculinity
Story14:30

The Final Two Weeks That Changed How Walters Saw His Father

While filming in Canada, Walters spent two weeks recording long conversations with his terminally ill father. Hearing about his father's neglect, care experience, and life knowledge softened Walters's judgement and left him certain that his father loved and was proud of him.

  • Walters had previously used his father's illiteracy as another reason to reject him
  • Their recorded conversations revealed intelligence grounded in life experience
  • His father's childhood helped Walters understand, without excusing, his behaviour
  • His father dismissed status symbols and affirmed unconditional love
  • Walters still wonders whether his father understood that his anger had softened

I walked away from that meeting that encounter knowing that he loved me

Ashley Walters · 35:30

I didn't tell him thank you

Ashley Walters · 36:00
#fatherhood#reconciliation#family#regret
Story20:00

Walters Says He Worked Through Grief—and Later Went Off the Rails

Walters says he returned to filming after one day home for his father's funeral and does not think he properly grieved. He describes drinking more, becoming more self-centred and promiscuous, hurting his partner, and making choices whose consequences he still feels; this is his personal interpretation, not a clinical account of grief.

  • His father's death was his first close encounter with losing someone important
  • His immediate response was to continue working
  • He says he lost much of his earlier spiritual sense of direction
  • He connects the period with reckless relationship choices
  • He says he remains affected when discussing the death years later

I just plowed through and I didn't grieve

Ashley Walters · 23:00

I'm still still paying the price for those those years now

Ashley Walters · 28:30
#grief#loss#relationships#accountability
Story29:30

Why Missing Recordings of His Father Still Feel Like Gold Dust

Walters says footage of his father's final conversations remained in an archive controlled by a former production-company partner after the business dissolved. He has tried for years to recover the tapes and believes they could help him and his children, although he cannot be certain they still exist.

  • The archive was created by a production company Walters co-founded
  • He accepts responsibility for not giving the company enough attention
  • The former partner took the archive after the company ended
  • Walters says he has sent requests through mutual contacts without a response
  • He wants to avoid a legal battle if the situation can be resolved another way

all I really have is those those tapes

Ashley Walters · 31:00

it'd be nice to get them back

Ashley Walters · 31:30
#family#archives#loss#reconciliation
Story54:30

When Lockdown Removed the Work That Helped Walters Feel Different

Walters says the pandemic's removal of acting work left him very low and forced him to sit with thoughts and habits he had long distracted himself from. He and Bartlett discuss the possibility that work had been supplying self-worth, but this remains their personal interpretation rather than a medical conclusion.

  • Walters found inactivity deeply uncomfortable
  • Continuous time at home exposed strain in his marriage
  • He says he was very low and worried during the early pandemic
  • Without sets, he felt a distinctive part of his identity had been removed
  • Drinking, smoking, and nail-biting became more visible to him

taking away my work from me

Ashley Walters · 55:30

it stripped a bit of me away and I became a civilian

Ashley Walters · 59:00
#pandemic#identity#work#self-worth
Story1:14:30

Walters's Fear of Passing Emotional Distance to His Children

Walters says he was absent during important parts of his older children's lives because of prison, touring, acting, and his unwillingness at the time to accept adult responsibilities. He now senses distance and reduced trust, and worries that a pattern stretching from his grandfather through his father and himself could continue into another generation.

  • He became a father at 17 or 18 and went to prison at 19
  • Work and touring extended his absence after prison
  • He distinguishes loving his children from having been present enough
  • He sometimes wonders why his older children do not bring important matters to him
  • He recognises similarities between their distance and his relationship with his own father

I was not there in the way that I should be

Ashley Walters · 1:15:30

I passed on my my distant kind of ways to them

Ashley Walters · 1:16:30
#fatherhood#family#accountability#generational-patterns
Story1:18:30

Why Top Boy Broke Walters's Rule Against More Crime Roles

Walters had told his agent he was willing to stop working rather than accept another interchangeable inner-city criminal role. He changed his mind after reading Top Boy because he saw structured, human characters with understandable motives and aspirations rather than what he viewed as shallow stereotypes.

  • Earlier success had led to repeated typecasting
  • His agent warned that refusing the roles could mean losing income
  • The Top Boy script reminded him of layered crime films he admired
  • He saw Dushane as ambitious and concerned with supporting others, despite the criminal setting
  • The script stood out even though he did not predict its eventual reach

I have to be willing not to work

Ashley Walters · 1:20:30

I saw the people behind the hood

Ashley Walters · 1:21:30
#top-boy#acting#typecasting#representation
Story1:30:00

The Creative Resistance Behind Top Boy's Final Season

Walters says he and Kano had a difficult experience pushing for scripts, representation, and coherent storylines during the final season. He attributes the resistance partly to normal conflict among multiple executives, says the struggle brought the pair closer as a team, and believes the push-and-pull improved the result even though he would not call it a victory.

  • Walters describes the ending as bittersweet because the cast and crew had become family
  • He and Kano wanted more creative input than they always received
  • He frames disagreement among executives as a business reality
  • The shared fight strengthened his working relationship with Kano
  • Ending the show also frees him to pursue other work after years of contractual stability

we faced a lot of resistance this time around

Ashley Walters · 1:32:00

the push and pull that happens within that process is what makes the show as good as it is

Ashley Walters · 1:35:00
#top-boy#creative-control#teamwork#television

Takeaway· 4

Takeaway32:30

Why Walters Thinks Children Need a Reference Point in Their Father

Walters says knowing his father's history, values, mannerisms, and strengths gave him a clearer sense of where he came from. He believes a child who understands a parent's identity and expectations has a stronger reference point, framing this as his own lesson from their final weeks together.

  • He connected some of his mannerisms and feelings to his father
  • His father's confidence made his own self-belief feel more available
  • Material success mattered less to his father than their relationship
  • Walters wants to offer his children the guidance he once envied in friends' fathers

one of the key things you need from knowing your dad is knowing where you come from

Ashley Walters · 32:30

he loved me and knowing that he was proud of me

Ashley Walters · 35:30
#fatherhood#identity#values#self-belief
Takeaway40:30

The Long-Term Career Value of Being Good to People

Walters attributes part of his longevity to accessibility, humility, helping others, and maintaining relationships in the industry. Host Steven Bartlett calls this cumulative reputation an invisible form of public relations; that label is Bartlett's interpretation, while Walters says goodwill has helped people support him after mistakes.

  • Walters says he brings part of himself to every acting role
  • He tries to remain humble outside the performance space
  • He has stayed accessible to the community that grew up watching him
  • Bartlett argues that past treatment affects recommendations in rooms you do not enter
  • Walters says people who know him have supported him during difficult moments

I've always been quite accessible

Ashley Walters · 42:30

let's call it like invisible PR

Steven Bartlett · 44:00
#reputation#relationships#career#humility
Takeaway51:30

Why Walters Values the Journey More Than Arriving

Walters says he would not erase even painful events because changing them might also erase the children, relationships, and opportunities that followed. He locates the best parts of achievement in the people, memories, challenges, and work along the way rather than in a final state with nothing left to pursue.

  • He rejects the idea of rewriting one event while preserving every later consequence
  • He tells students to focus on how they use their journey
  • Enjoying the process matters alongside achievement
  • He finds continued challenge more attractive than having nothing left to do

it's not about the journey it's about how you use your journey

Ashley Walters · 53:00

the best parts of what I've achieved has been along the way

Ashley Walters · 53:30
#meaning#acceptance#journey#achievement
Takeaway1:03:00

Walters on Why a Grudge Can Keep Hurting the Person Holding It

Walters says forgiveness can primarily benefit the person carrying resentment, because the other party may have moved on while the injured person continues thinking about them. He acknowledges that he has not forgiven everyone and is also trying to make amends with people who may not forgive him.

  • Walters links some urges to hurt others with having been hurt himself
  • He says he tries to move forward with love rather than act on vengeance
  • Forgiveness remains unfinished work for him
  • He includes accountability for harm he caused, not only harm done to him
  • Bartlett reinforces the point with a prisoner metaphor presented as a remembered quote

I'm working on making amends with other people as well

Ashley Walters · 1:04:00

who's really hurt you're hurting yourself

Ashley Walters · 1:04:30
#forgiveness#grudges#accountability#healing