The Body Trauma Expert: Medicating Kids Can Harm Brain Development! Eye Movement Trick That Fixes Trauma! The Secret To EMDR Therapy! - Bessel van Der Kolk
The myth-busts, hot takes, explainers, and tools worth keeping.
❝Story· 3
❝Story11:00
Born in 1943 next to the Nazi rocket launch sites
Van der Kolk was born in 1943 in occupied Netherlands, the middle of five children. His father was detained by the Germans and expected to be sent onward; his mother raised small children in hiding right next to the site from which Nazi rockets were launched at London, with half of them falling into the family's backyard. He has no conscious imprint of it, but he was a very sickly child in a period of hunger and misery in which half his generation died of starvation. He compares his own early years to those of children in Ukraine and Gaza today, and says it must have left a trace in his curiosity and his being — including a trace in a body that was very sickly.
Born 1943 in occupied Netherlands, middle of five children
His father was detained by the Germans; his mother hid with small children
Rockets aimed at London fell into their backyard
Half his generation died of starvation; he was a very sickly child
He calls it a preconscious imprint that shaped his curiosity
“I grew up with incredible preconscious imprint of what kids in Ukraine and Gaza are going through right now”
#biography#war#childhood#netherlands#imprint
❝Story13:30
The question that made his mother faint
Van der Kolk left the Netherlands at 18 specifically to put distance between himself and his parents. Ten or fifteen years later, as a junior professor at Harvard with two children, he wrote to say it was customary for parents to visit their children — something that had never crossed their minds — and they came. On the last day of an otherwise pleasant visit he told them much of his work concerned incest, and asked his mother directly whether something had happened to her. She fainted and fell off her chair; his father said look what you did to your mother and carried her away. Van der Kolk is careful not to over-read it: he does not know whether his mother was abused, only that he triggered something and that she was terrified about sex. He warns against jumping to conclusions.
He left the Netherlands at 18 to create distance from his parents
They only visited after he wrote to point out that parents do that
He asked his mother directly whether she had been sexually abused
She fainted; his father blamed him and carried her out
He explicitly refuses to conclude she was a victim — only that something was triggered
“her fainting means that I triggered something but I don't know what I triggered”
The Rorschach finding: we are all living in different worlds
Van der Kolk calls this his most profound research experience, and it was purely accidental. His team ran inkblot tests and found people projected completely different interpretations onto the same formless picture. Vietnam veterans saw bloody corpses and mutilated bodies; people who had never been in combat did not. Rape victims saw torn bodies; others did not. Once an experience becomes lodged in the perceptual system, the person continues interpreting the world through it. He notes the test has been analysed on around 100,000 people so patterns are detectable, and adds a wry aside that he learned as much from his inkblot test as from brain imaging — but brain imaging is the respectable one, and the mind has sort of disappeared from the field.
Same formless image, completely different projections
Vietnam veterans saw corpses; non-combatants did not
Rape victims saw torn bodies; others did not
Analysed on roughly 100,000 people, so patterns are real
He learned as much from inkblots as imaging, but imaging is respectable
“that really brought home to me that we all are living in different worlds”
From a word nobody used to a total explanatory mode
Van der Kolk describes the arc of his own field. When he started studying trauma on the research floor at Harvard, colleagues told him nobody would ever talk about trauma again after he croaked — it was a completely alien subject. Now everything is trauma and the word has become a total explanatory mode. He characterises this as the usual swing from one extreme to the other. His own interest has moved on: trauma started it, but somewhere along the line he came to see trauma as largely a breakdown of connection and synchronicity between human beings, so his focus now is on helping people establish a relationship to themselves and to the people around them.
Harvard colleagues told him trauma would never be discussed again after his death
The field has swung from non-existence to total explanatory mode
He now treats trauma as a breakdown of connection and synchronicity
His current focus is relationship — to self and to others
The mission was always social; the investigation was brain science
“from being non-existent it has become a total explanatory mode”
#trauma#psychiatry#culture#research#connection
•insight15:00
The CDC numbers behind the claim that child abuse is the most preventable cause of mental illness
Bartlett puts van der Kolk's own claims to him: that child abuse and neglect is the single most preventable cause of mental illness, the most common cause of drug and alcohol abuse, and a significant contributor to diabetes, heart disease, cancer, stroke and suicide — and that eradicating child abuse in America would cut depression by more than half, alcoholism by two thirds, and suicide, drug use and domestic violence by three quarters. Van der Kolk confirms them and immediately attributes them: the figures come from the very large CDC Adverse Childhood Experiences study run by Vincent Felitti on around 25,000 people, not from him. He adds separately that around a quarter of people are physically abused, one in five sexually abused, and one in eight children witness violence between their parents — and stresses it is not a binary issue.
Eradicating child abuse would cut depression by more than half
Two thirds reduction in alcoholism; three quarters in suicide, drug use, domestic violence
Figures come from the CDC study by Vincent Felitti, ~25,000 people
A quarter physically abused, one in five sexually abused, one in eight witness parental violence
He insists trauma is not binary — when he addresses professionals he assumes half viscerally know
“that doesn't come from me there's data from this very big CDC study done by Vincent Felitti”
Does trauma make better founders? Van der Kolk calls selection bias
Bartlett raises the investing folk wisdom that slightly traumatised founders outperform, citing Barbara Corcoran's observation that her best investments call with a solution attached rather than just a problem. Van der Kolk pushes back: that is selection bias in the sample she works with. He has employed and treated plenty of people who get paralysed in the face of challenges, have no solution, and become dependent on being given the answer. He does allow the underlying mechanism — an anomalous upbringing does make an anomalous adult, because you develop a mind and brain to fit that particular situation, and abuse forces you to find other solutions. But he stresses that many of those solutions are not successful, and that the people who did not find good ones never make it into his practice; they are outside with a drug addiction or on the street.
Corcoran's claim: her best investments call with a solution attached
Van der Kolk's response: unusual sample, selection bias
He has seen plenty of traumatised people paralysed by challenge
Anomalous upbringing does produce anomalous adults — brains adapt to the situation
The unsuccessful adaptations never reach a therapist's office
“it's the people who have had to struggle who often see new possibilities and have no choice but to discover new options”
Why abuse survivors become bodybuilders — and why bulking up is not enough
Bartlett observes that many weightlifters he has interviewed were bullied children, and van der Kolk supplies a striking corroboration: testifying on behalf of many people abused by Catholic priests, he found almost to a person they had become weightlifters and bodybuilders, clearly trying to bulk up for a sense of agency and power. His verdict is two-sided. First, the impulse is right and should not be met dismissively — not 'you're only doing that because', but 'good for you, you're doing that because you felt helpless and want to build yourself up'. Second, it did not work well enough for them on its own; a connection with their helplessness still had to be made. He also notes the research gap: in the current system you will not get funding to study weightlifting for trauma, however many people report it helps.
Almost all the abused men he testified for had become weightlifters or bodybuilders
The motive is agency and power after helplessness
Do not respond dismissively — the impulse deserves 'good for you'
Bulking up alone was not sufficient for them
You cannot get funding to study weightlifting for trauma
“they were just trying to bulk up to feel a sense of agency and power and it didn't work well enough for them”
#weightlifting#agency#abuse#research funding#body
•insight1:57:20
The closing question: where do I get the help I need?
Handed the previous guest's question about what the audience is screaming at the camera, van der Kolk answers that it is where do I get the help I need — and that this is genuinely the big thing, because it is so hard. Almost everyone he knows who found a way of getting better has been an explorer, and quite an accidental one: then I found this qigong teacher, then this yoga teacher, then this psychodramatist. His view is that the mainstream is not on the right road, so you have to discover what works for you, and that is tough because you will feel stupid and ignorant along the way. The hardest part is the attribution: when something is not helping, it is very hard to conclude that this person is not helping me rather than that there must be something wrong with me. He says he has been in treatments for long periods, despite all his qualifications, where it took him a long time to conclude he was wasting his time and money — and it is even harder without his education and background.
Everyone he knows who got better was an accidental explorer
The mainstream, in his view, is not on the right road
You will feel stupid and ignorant while searching
The hard distinction: this treatment is not working versus something is wrong with me
Even with his qualifications it took him a long time to leave treatments that were not working
“almost everybody who I know who have found a way of getting better has been an explorer and quite an accidental explorer”
Why yoga heals — and why happy baby pose is the one to watch
Van der Kolk is precise that you do not treat trauma with yoga; you treat your relationship to your body, which trauma distorts. His research showed that brain areas dampened by trauma come back to life when people start doing yoga. The mechanism follows Darwin: heartbreak and gut-wrench are visceral sensations, so if you are constantly experiencing them you learn to shut that awareness down as a defensive manoeuvre — which also means you no longer feel alive. But yoga can be agitating and frightening for traumatised people, and he singles out happy baby pose, in which you lie on your back holding your toes with legs spread and pelvis raised. For most people it is pleasant and relaxing; for sexual abuse survivors it triggers a great deal, and people may hold their bodies frozen precisely to avoid it.
You treat your relationship to your body, not the trauma itself
Brain areas dampened by trauma come back to life with yoga practice
Shutting down body awareness is defensive, but you stop feeling alive
Simple poses like down dog can trigger upset
Happy baby pose is the reliable trigger for sexual abuse survivors
“you don't treat trauma you use yoga to treat your relationship to your body it's not the same thing”
#yoga#somatic#body awareness#triggers#abuse
•tactic1:24:00
Neurofeedback: playing computer games with your own brainwaves
Neurofeedback hooks electrodes to the skull to harvest underlying brainwaves, projects that activity onto a screen, and lets the person play games with their own waves in order to organise them toward more focus and attention. Van der Kolk walks through why it matters: the back of the brain handles housekeeping and bodily regulation — breathing, hunger, needing the bathroom — and that regulation is messed up in a major way by trauma. When you close your eyes, the back of the brain is supposed to produce slow, peaceful waves. In traumatised people it produces much faster ones, so closing your eyes produces agitation, which he calls very detrimental to health. His framing is deliberate: this is not about trauma, it is about brain organisation. Trauma causes the disorganisation, but you treat the disorganisation.
Electrodes harvest brainwaves and project them as a game you play with your own brain
The back of the brain governs bodily housekeeping, which trauma disrupts
Eyes closed should produce slow peaceful waves
In traumatised people closing the eyes produces agitation instead
You treat brain organisation, not the trauma label
“this is not about trauma it's about brain organisation”
Asked what people are describing when they say their body just felt off around someone, van der Kolk names two things happening at once. We pick up each other's energy through what he calls the mirror neuron system — an important idea he thinks has been neglected in recent years. If a person is depressed but performing a role, it is likely the other person picks that up on some level and it colours the conversation. Someone very angry who is behaving themselves may still transmit the anger. But the second half is the genuinely complicated part of psychotherapy: if he feels uncomfortable in your presence, is it because you are triggering something about his past, or is he accurately picking something up about you? He offers no clean rule — that ambiguity is the complexity of human interaction.
We pick up each other's energy via the mirror neuron system
A performed mood still transmits underneath the performance
The core ambiguity: your past, or accurate perception of them
Van der Kolk considers this the complicated part of psychotherapy
He links it to being primates who never really existed as individuals
“am I picking up your energy or am I picking up my energy”
Screens as virtual realities are our biggest challenge
Van der Kolk names screens as virtual realities the biggest challenge we face. His argument is mechanical rather than moralistic: screens deliver a virtual reality of pleasure that is not real and is not a product of your own effort, so you get a cheap dopamine reward for something that ordinarily requires a great deal of activity. It feels like you had an experience, but you do not learn how to get along with other people and you do not get the visceral reaction of pleasure that comes with 'we are friends'. Bartlett adds the loneliness statistic that the average American now has around zero people they feel they could turn to in a crisis, down from about three two decades earlier. Van der Kolk calls it the big challenge, and says his foundation now mainly funds projects that help people connect and be in sync with each other — music, theatre, creating things together.
Screens give a cheap dopamine reward for something that normally requires effort
It feels like an experience but teaches you nothing about other people
The missing piece is the visceral pleasure of 'we are friends'
Bartlett cites a fall from about three confidants to roughly zero
His foundation funds music, theatre and collective creation as the response
“screens as virtual realities is our biggest challenge”
“you get your little dopamine rush and it feels like you had an experience but you don't learn how to get along with other people”